My place in the world.

[pphaneuf]

I find that it's hard for me to find my place in the world.

I have an extremely stripped down view of life, where just the essentials come into play. I find that I spend a great deal of energy dealing with the impedance mismatch with the rest of the world. People putting artificial restraints around themselves, and basically freaking out when I just walk through them unhindered.

I was poking fun at poly folks, for burdening themselves with so many rules and being so damned self-conscious about all of that. But I was chatting with cberner tonight, who also isn't monogamous, and who is now in an exclusive relationship with a girl. Basically, he has this belief that he just can't follow through because he's with someone who doesn't share it. That's kind of harsh, I don't really know what I'd do if I were in the same situation! It seems that a lot of the poly folks are dealing with (or are themselves!) people that are just at the edge, tolerating their behaviour, but not really understanding it. So there are often lots of rules to make the other comfortable, give them clear expectations. What's wrong with "I love you, and I'd like to spend time with you"?

I often consider how incredibly I am lucky with azrhey having such a similar point of view, but even then, I'm having to deal with some "normal people" having ridiculous issues. People ask who was that other girl that they saw me with, even though I didn't (and wouldn't!) do anything "suspicious". You know what? I have friends, and some of them are female! Yes, I know, it might be a shock, but fucking come down already! People comment about how underdressed I am compared to azrhey, and I'm like "what the fuck does this have to do with anything?!?". How did I convince her to "get into the dating scene"? What's this scene? How can I convince anyone of joining that thing? I called her up and asked her if she wanted to see a movie or have a pint, how about that? Maybe you should have asked? Maybe it's not too late for you, if you stop being a fucking retard already?

But in any case, the poly folks are still too damned self-conscious. Okay, so I am too, sometimes. Shut up, yeah, you in the back.

What's with people and being complicated? Oh well...

Comments

[blacksquiggles.livejournal.com]

some people just want more...there's not a damned thing wrong with wanting to be loved exclusively... :)

[pphaneuf.livejournal.com]

No, there's nothing wrong with that, although I fail to see how that is "more", somehow. Or "less", for that matter.

It just reminded me that it might have to come down to choices that I wouldn't like to make. Wouldn't it be so much easier if everybody else thought like me? ;-)

(it'd be a lot more boring, too!)

[blacksquiggles.livejournal.com]

giving yourself over to one person isn't more? Hmm, i think it is :)
to say "i am willing to give myself to you entirely, to never touch another person" that's pretty hardcore

[azrhey.livejournal.com]

it is ok to DO it if you want to.

it is not ok to EXPECT it from someone else

[blacksquiggles.livejournal.com]

never suggested it was :P

[azrhey.livejournal.com]

you`d be surprised how many people expect that.

*shrug*

humans are stange!

[sorceror.livejournal.com]

But it's what the vast majority of people have been brought up to expect.

[azrhey.livejournal.com]

"E tuttavia si aziona" -- Galileo Galilei

[pphaneuf.livejournal.com]

Most people do, it's true. But, thankfully, I'm not most people!

In fact, I find myself having deep programming of feeling back about some things that I just know at a more conscious level are perfectly fine and can be quite fun. I am quite annoyed at my up-bringing when that happens.

[pphaneuf.livejournal.com]

And being willing to cut body parts for someone is pretty hardcore too, but that doesn't make it smart.

Me, I have this perception that something so complete and inconditional is a bit of a sham. It's like the shadows in a picture, emphasizing the highlights. I like being told "no, I don't feel like seeing you tonight", because when she does, it means that much more to me. She REALLY wants to be with me NOW. And so do I.

Maybe I'm just weird. :-)

[blacksquiggles.livejournal.com]

the latter ;)

no no, different people work in different ways... *shrugs* I'm completely indifferent to how people handle their relationships..as long as they're not hurting anyone who fucking cares? :D
not like anyone gets my relationship!

[azrhey.livejournal.com]

more people should be like you!!!

[azrhey.livejournal.com]

my opinion on the exclusivity thing is that I want the people I am with / care for to do whatever they want to .

if they want to be exclusive, good, but I will never request that from anyone.

And it works both ways, eventhought I have been mostly exclusive in all my past relationships I always wanted the option of not being. It would be something I'd want to, not something i'd do to please someone else.

Meh. It DOES make sence in my head!.

[blacksquiggles.livejournal.com]

it makes sense, it seems the natural way to go...I hate that it's expected...always have...
I CHOOSE not to sleep with other people, I have no desire to...that's my choice, it was never forced on me :)

[messiahdivine.livejournal.com]

I was in a 5-6 year long open marriage. There were few problems - and most of the time it was the people around us that had the problem. I think the fact that we were having a great time and still really happy together made a lot of people nervous about their own relationships.
However, for me it was never intended to be permanent. I want to have kids eventually - and "settle down". My ex husband wanted to continue on - after a while our personal goals really branched and it was time to end it. What's funny though is he's now in a really monogamous relationship with his lovely chicky.
I don't think everyone can have a polygamous relationship. Takes a truckload of trust. My ex and I had only a few rules - like "If I'm feeling whiny and want some attention, I come first" or "If I come home from work all tired and I just want to nap, kick the other chicky out of our bed please." Other than that - we didn't need them. But I've seen so many other couples crash and burn because they were polygamous for the wrong reasons - instead of fixing problems with their relationship, they avoid it. It's like couples who have kids to "fix their marriage" heh.

Anyways. Just felt like commenting. :)

[blacksquiggles.livejournal.com]

for years you were my pro argument for poly marriages :)

something you said during the break up (thought I can't quote it) really hit home and my opinion has shifted quite a bit.

[pphaneuf.livejournal.com]

That sounds quite fine to me, ending it when personal goals branch like they did for you.

For me, it is sort of a permanent thing, but it is slightly different. In the past, it happened that I loved more than one person (not very often, because I'm not really quick that way), and I was guilt-tripping about it. Now, I've just accepted that I don't control this, it's just how it is, and it's not that I don't love each less. Even if I went into an exclusive relationship, I couldn't say that I am monogamous anymore. I'm not a wild animal for it, rather the opposite!

I agree with your assessment that not everyone can do it. I'm not advocating everyone does it either. Particularly in the examples you've given, opening up a relationship for the wrong reasons, that's just silly and evil.

But as you said, most of the time, it was the people around you that had the problems... That's what I mean with "my place in the world", the people around me. My more immediate circle of friends is rather understanding, but when I get to a larger outer circle, or my coworkers (I'm sure it'd make for fun company parties, bringing one girl, then another, then back the first one to alternating parties, or better, take them both!), etc... Eurgh.

Damn it, forget not being mono! Getting comments about how I dress in comparison to azrhey? Well, that's how I am, how's that for a crazy explanation? And no, I haven't dropped my pants in front of these people, I have enough trouble already. ;-)

On the up side, I'm finding that similar people seem to find each other, somehow. I don't know how that works, but I have a hard time believing that the ratio of non-mono people in the people I know is representative of society in general, for example.

[azrhey.livejournal.com]

Personally I blame EVERYTHING on the Old Dublin!

But seriously, you are forgetting these are the same people that don't like IT rought because "I am affraid my guy/bf/so would see me sweat".


People are too complicated, too shallow, too curious, too controling and too possessive for MY own good. And judgemental too.

I never require people to think/feel like I do, why do they ?

The only people who annoy me as much as those who try to restrict my views to their monogamous ways are the those who want to peg me as poly.

I am me, my own group and flavour! It seems to work rather well in the present circunstances, and it could much better if I didnt feel like I was in a petri dish 37.5 hours a week.
/rant.

And you know my theory about the way to dress...soooo. :P

[pphaneuf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they're the same people who don't want to sweat, but I'm okay with that, they have the right to be silly.

The point is, these same people are all around, and we have to deal with them, requiring us to think/feel like they do, for some insane "reason" in their heads.

And pegging to anything is just weird. It's not what I'm getting pegged into, I couldn't care less if people think I'm gay or bi or straight (I know for myself, and that's enough for me), it's the whole getting put in a category, with a whole set of judgements already done in advance. Saves thinking on their part, but, really...

I like your theory about the way to dress. :-)

[azrhey.livejournal.com]

of course they have the right to be silly.

But they don't have the right to annoy me.

And I am becoming more and more annoyed with each passing day.

MEH

[pphaneuf.livejournal.com]

I find it marvelous that you're decided to accept the way you are, and just go with it, without just letting it loose (the way you decided to have just one sexual partner, for example, seems like a very conscious choice).

You say "not as a date", but really, what you describe is the closest to a date I've ever been on. Really, I just do what I feel like: I feel like seeing that person, and I feel like going to that restaurant? Well, let's go with that person to that restaurant!

What do you mean by "couldn't mix and overlap them", but that they can "co-exist, intertwine, and support each other"? Do you mean that you cannot mix them in a single person, but that each of these persons could work together? I've given up on classifying loves. Some are big and obvious (the way I love my dad and I would love a girl are quite different!), but when it gets too subtle, I do see them mix and overlap.

I find that I take sex as a separate thing from love, definitely loving some people where sex isn't an option, and feeling sexually attracted toward people I'm not what "most people" would consider "in love" with. While not strictly tied together, being in love will tend to pull in sexual attraction, but most in the way that I would also like to spend time with that person (it's not automatic, but it happens a lot). I've never had a one night stand, and I find the idea of having sex with someone I do not know rather peculiar, but I am a bit curious.

I'd add a note about what I said about walking unhindered through those fences. Those I do have, I'm finding that it is very hard breaking through them, as you're finding out (laughing at myself is indeed a good way of dealing with it!). But what I was talking about is all those limits that I do not have, but that people around me have, when I accomplish what they deem unthinkable, I have to spend lots of energy with dealing with them freaking out. Energy that I'd rather use for being my own mischievious self.

Love is a wonderful feeling, and really, who doesn't like being loved?